Curse

Age · Aug 17, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

I was wondering about a buff to purge conditions as 20 sec recharge is slightly to much more like 10 sec..I know this isn't ised for pvp but it is the only thread Andrew is taking notes from.Remove Hex got a buff why not this one.

Zuranthium · Aug 18, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni Firestarter

At a 12 r, I just dont think monks can afford "luxury" elites.

Bump it down to 10r, 8r...whatever. A month ago everyone told me Blessed Light as 5, 1/4, 12 would be overpowered. So fickle, so fickle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I was wondering about a buff to purge conditions as 20 sec recharge is slightly to much more like 10 sec..I know this isn't ised for pvp but it is the only thread Andrew is taking notes from.Remove Hex got a buff why not this one.

I've been wanting to see Purge go to a 15 recharge and moved to Protection for a long time. It's certainly way under-par as is.

~Z

Thom Bangalter · Aug 18, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I was wondering about a buff to purge conditions as 20 sec recharge is slightly to much more like 10 sec..I know this isn't ised for pvp but it is the only thread Andrew is taking notes from.Remove Hex got a buff why not this one.

because then it would be a superior nonelite restore condition, that's why.

Yue · Aug 18, 2007, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Except it doesn't heal for a shitton of health when it pulls conditions, and it doesn't recharge in 2 seconds.

Thomas.knbk · Aug 18, 2007, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni Firestarter

Almost every team is allready putting a skirmish capable healer in their 8th slot. Blight making a monk splittable is such a marginal gain right now. Blight has got to be strong in an 8v8 situation, and it needs to be the FOCAL point of a monk bar. Monk bars are absolutely driven by their elites. LoD is going to be on one monk for sure (only time I can ever see it justified to drop LoD is ..... 4-4 on corrupted?), so your other monk is going to be the blight. A good backup skill just aint gonna cut it. With the exception of possibly RoF, monk elites are almost always their most used skills.

The runner has always been able to defend bases. It's just that before NF you didn't need healing to do that, because Blinding Flash was enough. NF gave us mending touch though, so even if you have Blinding Flash, your NPC's are still going to get killed. You NEED something like SoR now, and there's just no room for Heal Party on that bar. I'm pretty sure that if you take away mending touch (and possibly dismiss condi) we'd see eprod/heal party eles as runners again.

Um Yeah · Aug 19, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

The runner has always been able to defend bases. It's just that before NF you didn't need healing to do that, because Blinding Flash was enough. NF gave us mending touch though, so even if you have Blinding Flash, your NPC's are still going to get killed. You NEED something like SoR now, and there's just no room for Heal Party on that bar. I'm pretty sure that if you take away mending touch (and possibly dismiss condi) we'd see eprod/heal party eles as runners again.

Yeah, the runner has always been able to defend bases, but that's not the sole reason people used WoW/wielders and now SoR runners. The reason is that a eprod/hp spammer is simply not needed anymore with the addition of LoD to the game. Even against mending touch, an eprod runner would still have blurred and breeze, which would be enough to defend a base long enough for a teammate or two to come back and drive the enemy out. If mending touch was removed from the game, eprod runners wouldn't suddenly make a comeback because a heal party spammer is not needed if you have LoD on one of your monks. People would still run SoR because of it's ability to defend against ganks and it can be a great help to monks at the stand especially at VoD.

wuzzman · Aug 30, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Hmm, the meta has adjusted to blind bots, wards, aegis chain, and DA para to handle warriors. Man the poor melees never get a break. Then again I could just run 3 warriors and a mirror of disenchantment now that hex's are gone. Thank you anet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

the problem with these assassins (Team Arenas, they aren't used anywhere else) is that, in packs, they have WAY too many deepwounds, spike abilities AND unavoidable KDs.

deadly paradox completely kills the chance to interrupt properly.

so yes, once again, it's deadly paradox.

imagine that for a dancing daggers spike, with gale in earth without exhaustion, another uncondional KD, bit of degen, deepwound which is so easy to meet, and an afterspike.

also; each dagger does not hurt for more than 60, and soa is hardly useful for a 5 attack combo. (3 daggers, Shock, SOJ)

thing is, IF you stand long enough, they will die to energy, but usually the whole team got wiped in the first go.

basically you can compare it with a bomb; it either insta wipes the other team, or you lose. usually it's the first, though.

killing paradox would kill it in -

recharge
cast

and allow a bit more disruption again, also that horrible strong DW spam dies.

and yes, rending touch is insane, lol.

I fought a deadly paradox spike. It was an interesting build plenty of pressure, would catch a noob team in seconds. Scored 3 skills before they all died three at a time. Honestly if the battle last longer then 3 minutes their down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword

I think your sort of missing the point of drain here. Although you have some nice stats the real use of drain is an enchant removal on a spike. While it does and always has - been a source of energy managament for a dom mesmer, the real reason people use drain is for very well timed enchant removals.
Those that think are concerned about e management are not thinking about the fact that mesmers have the best energy management in the game. If people were truly concerned about a mesmers energy they would bring other mesmer skills besides drain.
Before this nerf(yes, I consider this a nerf - and solely for the reason I am about to describe) drain was a 1 second cast , with fast casting this becomes a very rapid cast. Drain on spikes in conjuction with shatter or some other form of enchant removal is one of the most affective aspects of a "balanced" spike build to remove preprots such as sod,ps,sb etc. Having a much slower casting drain will make finishing off a target that has remained alive after a spike and is at low health much harder, as the monks will have alot more time to counter the dps after the bulk of the spike has been sustained, as they can cast mutiple 1/4 second prot skills without them being ripped nearly instantly by a fast cast 1 second drain.

thats the purpose of shatter enchantment....a timed enchantment removal. However drain is clearly energy management for a mesmer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni Firestarter

Poor izzy.

i like what he tried to do with ancestors, by making it so they dont stack. But it just seems like right now, its asking for spike spike spike with rits behind them. You can now drop the 130 ancestors to land incredibly close to your follow up. Its like.. the critical chop for rits now lol. But hopefully that can be fixed somehow. You aren't going to have 8 rits or anything, but Im sure that there are going to be teams with Ancestors + weilders or something on spikes, and thats some 200+ damage landing in effectively... one chunk.

------

I just want to weigh in on this Blight discussion. Quite simply, LoD has COMPLETLEY changed GW as we saw it. And its really hard to talk about any comparison of monk bars before and after LoD.

Put simply, before LoD, there was an entire character devoted to party wide heals. The ele runner. Powered by Prodigy, it dealt with non spike damage while running on most maps. At stand, it would hyper charge a couple HPs to push bars up, and then regen energy via prodigy while running.

No more. Not only did it take two skill slots, but it was pretty much the entire basis for that character. It wasn't INCREDIBLY common, but I did see teams parking their runner at times and opting to use them purely as an HP bot while another char ran flags.

And LoD shattered that. LoD took that runner, and just... annihialated him. With the EP ele no longer needed, teams moved to different types of runners, lets look at the 4 generations of runners:

1) Mo/Es (elites varied, most notably I saw ZB, tho I also saw teams playing around with LoD and other elites to mixed sucess).
2) E/Rts - WoW + Freezing gust (elites varied)
3) E/Mos - SoR + Freezing Gust
4) Rt/E or Rt/D - this is just emerging. Usually weap remdy, shadow, WoW etc

Almost every team is allready putting a skirmish capable healer in their 8th slot. Blight making a monk splittable is such a marginal gain right now. Blight has got to be strong in an 8v8 situation, and it needs to be the FOCAL point of a monk bar. Monk bars are absolutely driven by their elites. LoD is going to be on one monk for sure (only time I can ever see it justified to drop LoD is ..... 4-4 on corrupted?), so your other monk is going to be the blight. A good backup skill just aint gonna cut it. With the exception of possibly RoF, monk elites are almost always their most used skills.

Its why I think the 5 3/4 5 discussions are a viable option, and the 12r or 10 en options just really aren't. A 10 en elite needs to act like SoD does and just deny targets for 7+ seconds. And at a 12 r, I just dont think monks can afford "luxury" elites.

Blight will never see the light of day in GvG or HA. I think the Rc/monk is now extinct considering the charges to necro's hex's and the must need status of Blinding Surge to deal with melee pressure. There is no room for rc or blight since teams now adays need aegis chain+blind bot+sod+lod to keep their teams afloat. Sor flag runner protects the base just fine, well at least to a point that blight is nothing more then a novelty.

bhavv · Aug 30, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

I would like to see reverse hex buffed a bit to 5, 1/4, 12, and damage reduction the same as RoF, just so that prot monks have a useable attribute based hex removal on par with Cure hex.

I dont think I've ever used reverse hex. 4 points in healing makes cure hex heal for 54.

Div · Aug 31, 2007, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Blight will never see the light of day in GvG or HA. I think the Rc/monk is now extinct considering the charges to necro's hex's and the must need status of Blinding Surge to deal with melee pressure. There is no room for rc or blight since teams now adays need aegis chain+blind bot+sod+lod to keep their teams afloat. Sor flag runner protects the base just fine, well at least to a point that blight is nothing more then a novelty.

What? Does that mean my guild is going into extinction since we use an RC monk?

wuzzman · Sep 02, 2007, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

What? Does that mean my guild is going into extinction since we use an RC monk?

in HA no...in GvG probably. Rc is still useful, but its not as good as SoD considering the GvG meta.

linh · Sep 02, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I would like to see reverse hex buffed a bit to 5, 1/4, 12, and damage reduction the same as RoF, just so that prot monks have a useable attribute based hex removal on par with Cure hex.

I dont think I've ever used reverse hex. 4 points in healing makes cure hex heal for 54.

No. 1/4s casting hex removal with same energy cost and recharge as others is too good, despite that you can't pre-veil.

Neo-LD · Sep 02, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Blight will never see the light of day in GvG or HA. I think the Rc/monk is now extinct considering the charges to necro's hex's and the must need status of Blinding Surge to deal with melee pressure. There is no room for rc or blight since teams now adays need aegis chain+blind bot+sod+lod to keep their teams afloat. Sor flag runner protects the base just fine, well at least to a point that blight is nothing more then a novelty.

Well, your right about BLight in its current form, but I think that would change if BLight were suitably buffed. The problem in your logic is what I put in bold. Teams dont need all of that. Some teams take that setup, but you can trade many of those methods of defense for others. Aegis for Stances, BSurge for Me/E with WardMelee, Paragon Shouters, SoD for RC/Guardian, etc.

Just about the only thing thats "required" right now is LoD. But thats been like that for quite some time now, so its nothing new.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 02, 2007, 08:44 PM // 20:44

I think that Blight would definitely become part of the meta if it got buffed right. Currently, the problem is that it tries to be a bar compression skill but it fails horribly at doing that because of it's inefficiency. Change it to something like:

5e, 3/4c, 4-5r
Heal target ally for 10...94 Health and remove one Condition and one Hex. If you remove a hex, lose 5 energy.

Then it would really become a good bar compression tool. Then it would be an efficient heal, self-heal, standard condition removal, and hex removal all in one, allowing some real bar compression.

Servant of Kali · Sep 02, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

That would be too strong IMO. The "lose 5 energy", isn't that irrelevant if you're at 0-1 energy? I mean, you can't lose energy to negatives.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 02, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

That would be too strong IMO. The "lose 5 energy", isn't that irrelevant if you're at 0-1 energy? I mean, you can't lose energy to negatives.

Then change it to "If target ally has a hex, then this skill costs 10 energy" or something, you still get the idea.

frojack · Sep 02, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

I like the direction your taking B Light in. However my only problem with elite bar compression of this sort is Humility and other disruption. Do you really want all that utility shut-down without alternatives? I guess you'd run potential alternatives on other players, but those options become vastly more crucial running along side such a compressed bar.

Still it's a minor point. It would be far better regardless...

Shmanka · Sep 03, 2007, 04:40 AM // 04:40

I always thought that if Blight healed for 15-20 points less it could cost 5 energy and still be balanced.

Neo-LD · Sep 05, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

That would be too strong IMO. The "lose 5 energy", isn't that irrelevant if you're at 0-1 energy? I mean, you can't lose energy to negatives.

I dont see whats so bad about letting intelligent monks save some energy by being fluffy with weapon sets.

audioaxes · Sep 07, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

spirit of failure and price of failure are overnerfed

the recharge time was already nerfed, it didnt need an energy cost nerf

Thomas.knbk · Sep 07, 2007, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

spirit of failure and price of failure are overnerfed

the recharge time was already nerfed, it didnt need an energy cost nerf

no they weren't

yes they did